Omniscient God opposite a not knowing Jesus

Those people who say Jesus is God and say they are monotheists should wonder why they do not call the Hindu’s monotheists their different godheads having total equality as the main god, though by trinitarian Christians their second godhead not at all having the same qualities as the main God.

A monotheist should been an adherent of monotheism which is defined as the belief in the existence of only one god that created the world, is all-powerful and interferes in the world.

If Jesus was God, then he would know everything and would have nothing to learn. But after Jesus was born he had to learn everything.

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land shall be forsaken of both her kings. (Isaiah 7:14-16)

God is an eternal God so is never born, but Jesus was born and received a title which indicate that it would be a messenger of God, having “God with us”. But he had to learn the difference between ‘good‘ and ‘evil‘ and had to learn to say ‘no’ to certain things or wants. If he is God he should not have to learn such things because God knows good and evil and never would do something bad or evil.

God being omniscient, which means he know everything is in contradiction with this passage teaching us that this special son, when he would be God, would have to go through a learning process like every other normal natural human being.

Isn’t it telling us that he at one time did not know the difference between good and evil? Isn’t it teaching us that he would have to learn to refuse the evil and choose the good?

The answer to these questions is obviously yes! It doesn’t take someone with a doctorate degree to answer them. In fact, the only too obvious answer to all of these questions destroys The Trinitarian concept of this special son. Furthermore, this conclusion from this passage is verified by what is said about The Lord Jesus Christ in The New Testament. Consider the following passages:

And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him. Luke 2:40.

And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man. Luke 2:52.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Matt. 24:36.

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Mark 13:32.

For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. John 5:20.

And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. Acts 1:7

The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John. Rev. 1:1.

At this point, let us briefly look at the implications of the above listed passages. We will take them in the order in which we quoted them.

In Luke 2:40, we have the natural process of growth in any descendant of Adam clearly set out and applied to the Lord Jesus Christ.

If the Lord Jesus Christ is God, then how can he be said to increase in strength? Does this mean that he became a weak human child? How can God lose His strength and still be called God? In this weakened state couldn’t the God of the Universe have been wiped out?
Next, how could Jesus , if he was God, need to increase in spirit? Does this mean God decreased His normal quantity of spirit? If so, then how did He refill Himself with it once again?
Again, wouldn’t this have exposed the God of the universe to the potential of being destroyed?
Now notice that the grace of God was upon him. If he was God, then why was the grace of God upon him? Doesn’t this show that God is God and separate from Jesus?
How can any other meaning be obtained from this statement?
Furthermore, why was God in need of grace? Doesn’t it seem strange that He would be extending grace to Himself? In that case, shouldn’t the grace be found in and not upon Himself? Also, remember that grace is unmerited divine favour. Was God placing favour that He did not earn upon Himself?

Doesn’t this reveal how fundamentally wrong The Doctrine of The Trinity is?

Now let us proceed to the next passage which will further reveal how wrong this doctrine is. In Luke 2:52 we are told that

“Jesus … increased in wisdom … increased in stature … increased in favour with God and man.

Jesus with a royal purple robe mocked and beat...

Jesus with a royal purple robe mocked and beaten as the King of the Jews, John 19:2-3. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

If Jesus is God, how can he increase in wisdom?
Did God empty Himself of wisdom and have to be refilled with it all over again? How could He regain this wisdom once He had let go of it? How is it possible for Him to remove His wisdom and still be considered God?
Is there such a thing as an unwise God? It would seem to me that to ask such a question is to answer it! Furthermore, it seems to me that He would be exposing Himself to any crafty individual by doing such an obviously absurd thing. It definitely seems that He was opened up to being outsmarted by almost anyone wiser than He at the time. Also, who was maintaining His universe when he was in such a weakened and unwise state?
Now notice that he had to increase in favour with God. Does this mean that He had to increase in favour with Himself? How can it be said that he increased in favour with God unless he wasn’t God? Obviously, God is viewed as God in this passage and Jesus as separate from and in need of God’s favour like every other human being.
In fact, these passages are emphasizing how identical to us Jesus was at that time! This fact is important when we come to look at the atonement and what was accomplished in Jesus’ death. We will leave that for a future discussion. Notice, also, that it says Jesus increased in favour with man as well as with God. If Jesus is God, and, therefore, the Creator of man, then, why is it important for him to increase in favour with man who is His creation? None of this makes any sense if The Doctrine of The Trinity is true. If Jesus was really a man and had just come into existence at that time, then all of these passages make perfect sense. If you feel all of this creates insurmountable problems for this doctrine, then wait and see what is coming next!

In Matt. 24:36 and Mark 13:32, we are informed that there is knowledge which no one, man, or angel, or he, Jesus, possesses but only The Father! If Jesus is God, coequal with the Father, then, how is it that he acknowledges that the Father possesses knowledge that he himself, just like other men, does not possess?

How can one part of The Trinity be said to know something that the other part does not know? Isn’t this nonsensical to say the least? Notice Jesus puts himself in the same category with the rest of Adam‘s race with respect to this knowledge. How can he still be God if he knows no more than other men on this subject? Doesn’t this show that God is separate and distinct from the son and superior to and not co-equal with him? Obviously, it does!

We now arrive at John 5:20 where we are informed that the Father loves the son. Does this really mean that He is in love with Himself? Isn’t this conceit? We are also informed that the Father was educating His son:

“and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.”

If Jesus is God, then why is it necessary to shew himself all things that he himself is doing? If he is omniscient, then, why does he have to be shown all things?

Doesn’t the Doctrine of The Trinity make a farce out of this very beautiful passage of The Father loving and educating His son? Again, doesn’t this passage demonstrate that The Father is separate from and superior to the son and not co-equal with him? It seems to us that it does if considered objectively and logically. By the way, being logical is being appealed to for this is the way The Creator made us so that He can reason with us in a very objective and sensible manner. Notice what He says in Isaiah 1:18,

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith Yahweh ….”

Also, in Rom. 12:1,

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable [LOGIKOS, pertaining to the reason, rational, (English, logical) …” E.W. Bullinger, A Critical Lexicon and concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, page 625.] service.”

Thus, The Doctrine of The Trinity defies the very fundamental way The Creator has made us. It is a totally illogical and irrational doctrine. It is a doctrine that must be offered without explanation because it can not be logically explained. In addition, Faith involves our capacity to reason logically on the evidence that God has offered to us so that we can be persuaded that He exists and is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. (Hebrews 11:6) Paul also informs us that we are saved by grace through faith in Ephesians 2:8. Grace is the means and faith is the channel. Thus, logically being persuaded of God’s provisions is the channel through which God’s grace proceeds! We will now proceed to the next passage.

In Acts 1:7, we are again confronted with a declaration that there is knowledge that is solely in the control of The Father.

“And he said unto them, It is not for you to know times or seasons, which the Father hath set within His own authority.” (Acts 1:7 ASV)

Remember, this declaration is being made after Jesus his resurrection and matches exactly what he had said before. He is no longer checked by mortality. He is immortal and incorruptible. He has been glorified. In spite of these facts, he clearly declares that there are things which are only in the power of the Father! How can this possibly be if he is co-equal with the Father and is the second person of The Trinity?

We have now arrived at the final passage in this series which is Rev. 1:1. Here again we are hit with a paradox if the Doctrine of The Trinity is true! Why? Well, consider carefully the full implications of what Jesus is saying in this passage. He says,

“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,…”

Here, we have Jesus Christ glorified and in heaven and quite a few years after he left the earth. Yet, inspite of these facts, he is still telling us that God had to give him this book called by us The Revelation. He himself did not know this information about God’s future plan, as expressed previously in the passages already looked at, until God gave it to him! How can this be possible if he is the second person of the Trinity? Doesn’t this, once again, show us that God is the only God separate and distinct and superior to His son who is not God? Logically, how can we come to any other conclusion? Isn’t it obvious by now that the Doctrine of The Trinity destroys the correct understanding of

“… the ONLY true God, AND Jesus Christ, WHOM THOU (God) hast sent.” John 17:3.

Notice, that, in this verse, John tells us that the correct knowledge concerning this only true God and Jesus Christ is life eternal! Therefore, if we want life eternal, then we have to have a correct understanding on this subject. May it be said at this point that The Doctrine of The Trinity can not be that correct understanding? We feel feel that if you put all emotion aside, then you will have to agree with The Scriptural point of view which has been presented to you so far in these pages.

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Preceding articles

Souls and Religions with Nirvana and light

The true light in recorded words

Who Is Jesus? God, or unique Man?

The saviour Jesus his godly side

The saviour Jesus his human side

Jesus the “God-Man”: Really?

The habitual misreading of John 1 and the ‘Word being God’ #1

The habitual misreading of John 1 and the ‘Word being God’ #2

Deity manifested in Messiah

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Additional reading

  1. Trinity
  2. Trinity – Behind a false doctrine
  3. The Trinity – the truth
  4. Trinity – History
  5. Tri-union gods and Pagan, Christian, Muslim and Jewish views on the Creator God
  6. Are there certain books essential to come to faith
  7. Words of God to stand and to be followed and to believe
  8. A collection of holy writings to show God and His Works
  9. One God the Father, a compendium of essays
  10. Lovers of God, seekers and lovers of truth
  11. 4th Question: Who or What is God
  12. A 1st reply to the 4th Question Who is God 1 A Creating Being to be worshipped
  13. Have no other gods besides Me
  14. Daring to speak in multicultural environment
  15. A solution for a damaged relationship 3 Insight and prophesies given
  16. Jesus begotten Son of God #13 Pre-existence excluding virginal birth of the Only One Transposed
  17. Jesus begotten Son of God #19 Compromising fact
  18. Authority given to him To give eternal life
  19. Through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe
  20. Saved through grace not through keeping rituals
  21. Faith, storms and actions to be taken
  22. The longer you wait
  23. Looking for something or for the Truth and what it might be and self-awareness
  24. Using the gifts differing according to the grace

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Further reading

  1. World Religions: People of the Book
  2. Word of god? No – Pulp Fiction
  3. Essential Theology: God is One
  4. A Origins of Monotheism
  5. The Argument Against Polytheism Part 1
  6. The Argument Against Polytheism – Part 2
  7. Daoism and Monotheism
  8. Polytheism after MonotheismPagan and Monotheistic Violence
    Theology of monotheism is disguised materialism – Sita Ram Goel
    How Monotheism Fostered Science
  9. Follow-Up to the Argument Against Polytheism
  10. Jesus Monotheism
  11. Seeker Of Truth
  12. A European muses on goddesses
  13. Are all gods one god?
  14. Omniscient, Omnipresent and Completely Sovereign
  15. He’s Everywhere
  16. Things God Can’t Do
  17. Jesus – Omnipresent, Omniscient
  18. God is Enough!
  19. February 8, 2017
  20. February 17, 2017
  21. Yitro & Psalms 29, 82, & 97: Greater Than Other Gods
  22. Religion’s Final Quarter, Tie Score: Monotheism 1, Zero-theism 0…
  23. The Gods Before Allah — Gangleri’s Grove
  24. Islamophobia: Causes, Effects & Solutions
  25. Surah 16:75 How Could Allah Be Compared To the Creation – Parable
  26. Quran 30:28 The Rejection Of Polytheism – Parable
  27. Christianity – Nature of God
    Mark 9:37 Jesus and God as One?
  28. The Trinity
  29. Trinity is not Three
  30. Henotheology!
  31. Good Without God, or Elite Background
  32. The Kalam Cosmological Argument Adapted to The Origin of a Living God
  33. Krishna reveals the Universe (4)
  34. The Science of God
  35. God, Omnipotent, Good and evi – Philosophical point of view, by Matthew Adeleye
  36. The Small Stuff
  37. Scripture for Monday, January 23 (1/23)
  38. Our Competition With God

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About Christadelphians

Free Christadelphians or Brothers and sisters in Christ, living in Belgium, European Union. - Vrijë Christadelphians of Broeders en zusters in Christus wonende in België in de Europese Unie.
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2 Responses to Omniscient God opposite a not knowing Jesus

  1. Pingback: Deity manifested in Messiah | Broeders in Christus

  2. Pingback: Application of old pagan concept of trinity | Stepping Toes

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