About us

Broeders in Christus presents Belgian (Flemish, a.o.) Christadelphians with their Christadelphian thoughts mostly in Flemish or Dutch, and some articles in English.

Christadelphian Hall in Bath/England

Christadelphian Hall in Bath/England

We would like to share our faith with those who are interested in the Word of God.
We would like to remember the passers-by that not all Bible Students are connected with Jehovah’s Witnesses.

The Flemish Brethren in Christ (Bothers in Christ) or Christadelphians are part of a worldwide community of Bible students whose fellowship is based on a common understanding of the Scriptures. The ‘Broeders in Christus‘, Brothers in Christ or “Brethren in Christ” come together in meetings to study the Bible and to remember the Last Supper with the Breaking of the Bread at the Ecclesia. At our Ecclesia website you can also find different English articles > Christadelphian Ecclesia. We invite you to visit us there or in Leefdaal by Leuven (Ecclesia Brussel-Leuven).

We aren’t some sort of branch cultic group, as we have no central organization telling us what to do and believe. Rather we are tied together (in faith) everywhere by our distinctive beliefs, which are freely and independently arrived at.

The Christadelphians or Brothers in Christ believe that Jesus or Jeshua/Yeshua/Yashua/Yahshua, the Nazarene, the Messiah or Christ is the son of God, who came to fulfil the Old Testament promises and covenants of God with mankind, primarily the covenants with Eve, Abraham and David.

We believe all Bible teachings, including:

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  4. jeff alen zegt:

    Jesus – Was He God?

    Many times Jesus referred to His own deity, both directly and indirectly. Although Jesus confirmed that He was the Messiah (Mark 14:62,63), He did not use the term Messiah to refer to Himself, perhaps to differentiate His deity from the widespread expectation of a human Messiah. Jesus used the terms “Son of Man” and “Son of God” often. Both referred to His divine nature (Daniel 7:13,14; Matthew 26:63,64). Jesus also used the specific words I am (Ego eimi in Greek, Ani bu in Hebrew) on several occasions (e.g., John 8:56-58). God used these same words to describe Himself to Moses. Jesus also states specifically that He and God are “one” (John 10:30), meaning, the same substance, nature and essence.

    And Jesus clearly indicated He had authority over issues controlled only by God, such as forgiveness of sin (Mark 2:5-10), the timeless power of His words (Matthew 24:35), and reception of glory (John 17:5). Perhaps as significant was Jesus’ acceptance of worship (Luke 5:8; John 20:28). The intense monotheistic foundation of the Jews would absolutely forbid any worship of anything but the one true God. Overall analysis of Jesus’ life, His compassionate miracles, His perfect lifestyle, and His love, indicate that His claims alone are trustworthy, and perhaps the strongest evidence of His divinity.

    Did Other People Consider Jesus to Be God?

    The disciples clearly came to view Jesus as God in human flesh, and they worshiped Him as such (Luke 5:8; John 20:28). Certainly, the witnessing of the resurrection and the transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-5) provided irrefutable evidence to them. New Testament writers and early Christian writing define Jesus to be God … our Lord … here on earth (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Timothy 2:5).

    Is There Other Evidence of Deity?

    Many people say that Jesus’ miracles are evidence of deity. But miracles have been recorded as being performed by other individuals (in the Bible and elsewhere). The Bible states that perfect fulfillment of prophecy proves God’s intervention (Deuteronomy 18:21,22). The odds of all Old Testament prophecies about Jesus coming true in any one man is beyond statistical possibility without divine intervention. And Jesus prophesied with perfect accuracy regarding such things as the precise timing of His death, the detailed manner of His death, His resurrection, and His later appearance in Galilee. Prophetic perfection combined with a claim to be God verifies Jesus’ deity.

    Why Do People Reject Jesus?

    The evidence regarding Jesus is so overwhelming that it seems incredible that many people still reject Him. After all, the promises of inner peace and joy on earth and eternal life in heaven are not bad promises … and they’re easy and free. Rejection of the Messiah, however, should not be surprising. It was often prophesied (Isaiah 53:1-3; Psalm 118:22; Matthew 21:42-46; Luke 16:19-31).

    Ignorance – Perhaps the greatest reason for nonbelief in Jesus is ignorance. Most people take far too little time to investigate their religious beliefs. As a result, world opinion often becomes the basis for the most important issue in life. Views about Jesus may come from a family belief, friends, or a dominant church in the community. People sometimes think a church is teaching biblical Christianity when it’s not. We are individually responsible for comparing teaching to the Bible. In the end, it doesn’t matter what the reason is, if you are wrong. Nor does sincerity matter. As history has shown too often, people can be very sincere, yet sincerely wrong.

    Apathy – Many times people have a false sense of security that God will take care of everyone. This idea is sometimes accompanied with the thought that hell doesn’t exist, or that God will send everyone who “tries to be good” to heaven anyway. The Bible reveals that God’s promises are reserved for His people, and there are many reasons why others “don’t hear” (Matthew 13:11-43). The reality and horror of hell is clearly stated, including the narrow path to get to heaven, which is available to all (Matthew 7:13).

    Fear – Some people fear that becoming a Christian means “giving up fun” or living a strange, secluded life without friends. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we must start a dull life and turn away from having parties with other people. It says the opposite. The Bible promises that knowing Jesus will let us live life to the fullest (John 10:10). And not only will such freedom draw us to have fun with friends, the Bible says even the angels in heaven throw a party when we accept Jesus as Lord (Luke 15:10).

    Tradition – This reason for rejecting Jesus is often the strongest. But we are each accountable for our own actions. Even society doesn’t send parents to jail for their children’s crimes. Jesus knew He would, at times, cause people to break away from traditional family beliefs (Matthew 10:21,22).

    Some people think that believing in Jesus and being good are the secret to heaven. The Bible says otherwise. It says that religion, speaking in Jesus’ name, and being good are of no value if Jesus doesn’t know us (see Mathew 7:21-23). Knowing Jesus is more than just a belief about Jesus. It means repenting and accepting Jesus’ sacrifice and His claims to be God.


    • A person being divine, like a wife for example or Jesus, does not mean she or he is God. As you say there are many people who want to believe that when they believe in Jesus and when they are being good they would come into heaven.
      They often do not question what that believe in Jesus really is. They take it that they have to take Jesus as their god, though Scripture is very clear on the fact that there should only a true believe in One True Divine God, the Creator of heaven and earth. That Supreme Being should be the eternal Spirit (= having no beginning and no end), Who can not be seen by man (or they would die), cannot be tempted, can not sin and Who is the God of Abraham and the God of Jesus, the heavenly Father, of Whom no pictures or graven images may be made.
      In this world we see a lot of people who take Jesus to be God, but still make pictures of him and even bow down in front of statues and pictures of him. (An abolition in the eyes of God.) Those people do forget that Jesus was born (had a beginning), was seen by many (who did not die), was tempted more than once, could sin but did not, wanted only to do the will of his Father and not his own will, gave his life for many and really died (remember God can not die) and when resurrected from the dead, after three days in hell, he showed his wounds to his disciples to proof he was no spirit. After his resurrection Jesus his heavenly Father made him higher than angels (= Jesus first was lower than angels. God was, is and always shall be the Most High.) and took him to sit next to Him. (Not on God’s throne.) to be a mediator between God and man.

      God and Jesus never told lies according to the Bible. God clearly told the world He was going to give a Saviour, a son of man, and when the Jew Jeshua was standing in the river Jordan at his baptism by his cousin, God said that Jesus was His beloved son.

      Luk 1:30-35 The Scriptures 1998+ (30) And the messenger said to her, “Do not be afraid, Miryam, for you have found favour with Elohim. (31) “And see, you shall conceive in your womb, and shall give birth to a Son, and call His Name יהושע {Jeshua}.1 Footnote: 1Mt. 1:21. (32) “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And יהוה {Jehovah} Elohim shall give Him the throne of His father Dawid. (33) “And He shall reign over the house of Yaʽaqoḇ forever, and there shall be no end to His reign.”1 Footnote: 1Verses 32 and 33 confirm the prophecies Ps. 2, Ps. 89:14-34, Isa. 9:7, Isa. 16:5, Jer. 23:3-6, Jer. 30:9, Ezek. 37:24, Dan. 2:44, Dan. 7:18-27, Mic. 5:2-4, Acts 1:6-7, Rev. 11:15. (34) And Miryam said to the messenger, “How shall this be, since I do not know a man?” (35) And the messenger answering, said to her, “The Set-apart Spirit shall come upon you, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow you. And for that reason the Set-apart One born of you shall be called: Son of Elohim.

      The apostle Luke has it about “the Son of the Most High”, and we might also consider the gospel writer was under divine inspiration, and as such telling the truths as well.

      Luk 3:21-22 The Scriptures 1998+ (21) And it came to be, when all the people were immersed, יהושע {Jeshua} also being immersed, and praying, the heaven was opened, (22) and the Set-apart Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven saying, “You are My Son, the Beloved, in You I did delight.”

      Today there are still lots of people who do not want to accept what the Holy Spirit His Voice came to say about Jesus. Faith in Jesus means accepting also that he is God His Son, the beloved; in which God takes delight.

      It is not because God uses the two words “I Am” that any person who says “I am” is The God or a god. Lots of people answer, like Jesus did when he was questioned if he was that person, with “I am”. Jesus confirmed that they were rightly talking about ‘that man’ which was him, and not an other person. Neither there or in any other place did Jesus wanted to compare himself with the Most High Elohim or ever said he was God. The opposite is clearly notated in the Books of the Greek writings or New Testament. Jesus never claimed to be doing the miracles himself, nor to pray to him or worship him, but to do like he himself did, praying to the only One God, the God of Adam, the God of Isaac, which is the same God of Abraham and should be the same God of us.

      When Jesus was tempted in the dessert (remember that God cannot be tempted according Scriptures), he also said only the One and Only God of gods had to be worshipped.

      Mat 4:10 Then יהושע said to him, “Go, Satan! For it has been written, ‘You shall worship יהוה your Elohim, and Him alone you shall serve.’ ”1 Footnote: 1Dt. 6:13.

      Joh 14:23 יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our stay with him.
      Joh 14:24 “He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.
      Joh 14:25 “These Words I have spoken to you while still with you.
      Joh 14:26 “But the Helper, the Set-apart Spirit, whom the Father shall send in My Name, He shall teach you all, and remind you of all that I said to you.
      Joh 14:27 “Peace I leave with you – My peace I give to you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
      Joh 14:28 “You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming to you.’ If you did love Me, you would have rejoiced that I said, ‘I am going to the Father,’ for My Father is greater than I.
      Joh 14:29 “And now I have told you before it takes place, that when it does take place, you shall believe.
      Joh 14:30 “I shall no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming,1 and he possesses none at all in Me, Footnote: 1See Lk. 4:6.
      Joh 14:31 but, in order for the world to know that I love the Father, and that as the Father commanded Me, so I am doing. Rise up, let us go from here.

      Joh 5:16 And because of this the Yehuḏim persecuted יהושע, and were seeking to kill Him, because He was doing these healings on the Sabbath.
      Joh 5:17 But יהושע answered them, “My Father works until now, and I work.”
      Joh 5:18 Because of this, then, the Yehuḏim were seeking all the more to kill Him, ‘because not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He also called Elohim His own Father, making Himself equal with Elohim.’
      Joh 5:19 Therefore יהושע responded and said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son is able to do none at all by Himself, but only that which He sees the Father doing, because whatever He does, the Son also likewise does.
      Joh 5:20 “For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all that He Himself does. And greater works than these He is going to show Him, in order that you marvel.
      Joh 5:21 “For as the Father raises the dead and makes alive, even so the Son makes alive whom He wishes.
      Joh 5:22 “For the Father judges no one, but has given all the judgment to the Son,
      Joh 5:23 that all should value the Son even as they value the Father. He who does not value the Son does not value the Father who sent Him.
      Joh 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
      Joh 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of Elohim. And those having heard shall live.
      Joh 5:26 “For as the Father possesses life in Himself, so He gave also to the Son to possess life in Himself,
      Joh 5:27 and He has given Him authority also to do judgment, because He is the Son of Aḏam.

      Clearly all Scripture speaks about One God and an other person, to be the Messiah, promised already in the garden of Eden and later to the fathers of the Chosen people of God. It is that Jewish man, Jeshua whose name was changed in Issou or Jesus (Hail Zeus) in 325 when the church-fathers had to take on the tri-une gods of the Greek Roman culture. From then onwards the Trinity-doctrine entered Christendom and created a fog in the eyes of the people.

      Though when they would read the words like they are notated, all should be able to find the truth and to see that Jesus was a send one from God, a master teacher and a prophet, who really died for many and was taken out of dead by his heavenly Father, to Whom Jesus would hand over the Kingdom, which belongs to God, the Spirit to Whom Jesus also belongs and is subordinate.

      1Co 11:3 And I wish you to know that the head of every man is the Messiah, and the head of woman is the man, and the head of Messiah is Elohim.

      God is the Boss over Jesus, who is allowed to sit at the right hand of God, to be a mediator between God and man. At the end Jesus shall surrender the Kingdom to his God and Father, having overthrown all other rule and all other authority and power.

      1Co 15:22 For as all die in Aḏam, so also all shall be made alive in Messiah .
      1Co 15:23 And each in his own order: Messiah the first-fruits, then those who are of Messiah at His coming,
      1Co 15:24 then the end, when He delivers up the reign to Elohim the Father, when He has brought to naught all rule and all authority and power.
      1Co 15:25 For He has to reign until He has put all enemies under His feet.
      1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be brought to naught is death.
      1Co 15:27 For “He has put all under His feet.” But when He says “all are put under Him,” it is clear that He who put all under Him is excepted.
      1Co 15:28 And when all are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself shall also be subject to Him who put all under Him, in order that Elohim be all in all.
      1Co 15:29 Otherwise, what shall they do who are immersed for the dead, if the dead are not raised at all? Why indeed are they immersed for the dead?
      1Co 15:30 And why do we stand in danger every hour?
      1Co 15:31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Messiah יהושע our Master, I die day by day.
      1Co 15:32 If, as men do, I have fought with beasts at Ephesos, of what good is it to me? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”
      1Co 15:33 Do not be led astray, “Evil company corrupts good habits.”
      1Co 15:34 Wake up to soberness, righteously, and do not sin, for some do not have the knowledge of Elohim. I speak this to your shame.

      We should not shame ourselves by believing the Biblical doctrine instead of the human doctrine. We all who believe in Jesus as the Messiah, should also follow his teachings. The man who called to his heavenly Father, asking why He (God) had abandoned him (Jesus) should be the major example for Christians to follow. Jesus did not pray to himself as a schizophrenic perhaps might do, but directed his words and thoughts to the Only One God, the Elohim Hashem Jehovah. We too should do that and have no other gods than the God of Jesus. We should listen to what the disciples of that man told their followers. They presented us the story of Jeshua, born in Bethlemem, in the tribe of David and grown up in Nazareth. The apostles and directly chosen ones by Christ tell us how God consecrated him his Christ by enduing him with the Holy Spirit and with power; and how he went about doing good and curing all who were under the power of evil, because God was with him, the anointed Jewish rabbi from Nazareth.

      Act 10:33 “So I sent to you immediately, and you have done well to come. And now, we are all present before Elohim, to hear all that you have been commanded by Elohim.”
      Act 10:34 And opening his mouth, Kĕpha said, “Truly I see that Elohim shows no partiality,
      Act 10:35 but in every nation, he who fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
      Act 10:36 “He sent the word to the children of Yisra’ĕl, bringing the Good News: peace through יהושע Messiah! He is Master of all.
      Act 10:37 “You know what word came to be throughout all Yehuḏah, beginning from Galil after the immersion which Yoḥanan proclaimed:
      Act 10:38 how Elohim did anoint יהושע of Natsareth with the Set-apart Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for Elohim was with Him.
      Act 10:39 “And we are witnesses of all He did, both in the country of the Yehuḏim and in Yerushalayim, whom they even killed by hanging on a timber.
      Act 10:40 “Elohim raised up this One on the third day, and let Him be seen,
      Act 10:41 not to all the people, but to witnesses, those having been chosen before by Elohim – to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.
      Act 10:42 “And He commanded us to proclaim to the people, and to witness that it is He who was appointed by Elohim to be Judge of the living and the dead.1 Footnote: 1See 17:31, John 5:29, Ps. 96:13, Ps. 98:9, Rev. 19:11.
      Act 10:43 “To this One all the prophets bear witness, that through His Name, everyone believing in Him does receive forgiveness of sins.”

      We may not forget that it is to him (Jeshua/Jesus Christ) it is that all the Prophets bear witness, when they say that every one who believes in him receives through his Name forgiveness of sins. Therefore it is important to really believe who Jesus really is, and not to keep to the false teaching of the Trinity, which you shall no where find in the Bible.
      In case there would have been a three-une god, the Supreme Being would have made it clear, and would not have presented an other god to His Chosen People of Israel and to the gentiles.

      Jesus came into the world to explain the Words of God and for those who did not yet recognise what and who they had to make something good of their life. Jesus his kingly power is not due to this world and is not from the world. Jesus was born for this to bear testimony to the Truth. Every one who is on the side of Truth should listen to his voice and not to the voices of man who twist his words.

      Joh 18:31 Then Pilate said to them, “You take Him and judge Him according to your law.” The Yehuḏim said to him, “It is not right for us to put anyone to death,”
      Joh 18:32 in order that the word of יהושע might be filled which He spoke, signifying by what death He was about to die.
      Joh 18:33 Then Pilate went back into the palace, and called יהושע, and said to Him, “Are You the Sovereign of the Yehuḏim?”
      Joh 18:34 יהושע answered him, “Do you say this from yourself, or did others talk to you about Me?”
      Joh 18:35 Pilate answered, “Am I a Yehuḏite? Your own nation and the chief priests have delivered You to me. What did You do?”
      Joh 18:36 יהושע answered, “My reign is not of this world. If My reign were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Yehuḏim. But now My reign is not from here.”
      Joh 18:37 Then Pilate said to Him, “You are a sovereign, then?” יהושע answered, “You say it, because I am a sovereign. For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”

      Are you willing to hear the voice of the Messiah?


  5. quess rolan zegt:

    Questions for Christadelphians
    By Matt Slick

    1. According to Christadelphian theology, Jesus had a sinful, fallen nature.
    A. Deut. 17:1 says, “You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God an ox or a sheep which has a blemish or any defect, for that is a detestable thing to the Lord your God,” (NASB, See alsoEzekiel 43:22-23, 25; 45:18, 23). Of course, Jesus is not an animal. The point is that the sacrifice to a holy God must have no blemish or defect.
    i. “defect” in Hebrew is ra. In this verse, it is translated as “evilfavourdness” in the KJV, as “defect” in the RSV and NKJV, and as “flaw” in the NIV.
    B. Question: If Jesus had a sinful, fallen nature, then isn’t that a defect?
    C. Question: If Jesus’ sinful nature is not a defect, then what would you call it?
    D. Question: If Jesus sinful nature is a defect, then doesn’t that mean His sacrifice is insufficient?
    E. Question: If you state that being obedient is what makes a person “unblemished,” then why are we damned by nature (Eph. 2:3) if it is only our sinful deeds that condemn us?
    2. According to Christadelphian theology, Jesus had to die in order to save himself. Yet the Christadelphians also maintain that Jesus was without blemish or defect.
    A. Question: If this is so, why would Jesus need to save Himself if He had no sin?
    B. Question: If Jesus needed to save Himself, then that means He was not without defect. If that is the case, then how can he be a pure and unblemished sacrifice?
    3. Thomas said to Jesus, “My Lord and my God,” (John 20:28). He was not sinning by using God’s name in vain.
    A. Question: Can you, like Thomas, say to Jesus, “My Lord and my God.”?
    B. Question: If you do call Jesus your Lord and your God, since you believe Jesus is a creation, isn’t that idolatry?
    C. Question: If you do call Jesus your Lord and your God, is Jesus the true God or not?
    D. Question: If you do not call Jesus you Lord and your God, why not? It is biblical.
    4. Jude 4 says, “For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.”
    A. Question: Can you call Jesus your only Master and Lord?
    B. Question: If you do call Jesus your only Master and Lord, then what about God the Father? Is He not also your Lord and Master?
    C. Question: If you call Jesus your “only” Lord and Master, aren’t you committing idolatry?
    D. Question: If you do not call Jesus your only Lord and Master, then aren’t you disobeying the truth of God’s word?
    5. John 1:12 says, “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,”
    A. Question: Have you received Jesus?
    6. In Matt.11:28 Jesus says, “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” The rest He is referring to is rest from the law, from trying to please God by your deeds.
    A. Question: Have you gone to Jesus and rested are or you still trying to please God enough to be saved?
    B. Question: If you have gone to Jesus, how did you do this? In prayer to Jesus?
    7. When we sin, we sin against God because it is His law we are breaking. He is the one who must forgive us because we have offended Him. The one offended is the one who forgives. Someone or something else doesn’t forgive us for our sins against God, only God can do that.
    A. Question: How is it that Jesus is the one who forgives sins (Luke 5:20) if Jesus is not God, the one who is offended?
    B. Question: If you state that it is because Jesus was given authority by God to forgive sins (Matt. 28:19), then have you gone to Jesus and asked Him to forgive you of your sins? Remember, to do that, you must pray to Jesus. Is it right to pray to a creature?


    • Lots of questions which normally would demand many pages of reply.

      1. According to Christadelphian theology, Jesus had a sinful, fallen nature.
      A. It is not because Deut. 17:1 says, “You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God an ox or a sheep which has a blemish or any defect” tat the offer brought to God by Jesus would mean he could not sin. Also the matter that a person can sin does not mean he has to sin. Jesus was tempted more than once and could have gone into the temptation but he did not. It was he free choice to only do the Will of his heavenly Father.
      As you also find yourself “Of course, Jesus is not an animal” and than you continue “The point is that the sacrifice to a holy God must have no blemish or defect”. Jesus only having done the Will of his heavenly Father did not sin and as such would not have any blemish. A defect he had more than one, because before he died he was tortured and by having the crown on his head his figure was very damaged, also by the nails put in his hands and feet, plus the spear going through his heart. But those defects of his natural physical body did not damage his spiritual body, which stayed clean and pure.

      To have a sinful nature is not at all a defect, it is part of the created form. The first man and mannin (1° Adam and Eve) had the same condition like the 2° Adam, Christ Jesus. Every element of Jesus’ life was inspired by the truth and guidance of God, and this was enough proof for God to accept Jesus like he was.

      The first human being reposted and went against the Will of God. Because of their action their descendants also got the human tendency to go against God’s guidance (see Romans 3:23) Sin is breaking or abandoning God’s laws, something Jesus never did.

      It is because Jesus is not God that he can save us from our sins. Jesus was a mortal man who faced the same temptations and weaknesses we face. He was able to relate to what we go through, although unlike us, Jesus never gave in to temptation. Hebrews vividly makes this point. Heb 2:14-18

      The answer is that Jesus never submitted to temptation – he was sinless – therefore, it was not necessary for the grave to hold him. Acts 2:24 . When God resurrected Jesus and made him immortal, he was no longer subject to death and dying. By dying, the power of death was destroyed in Jesus and by extension, for those who belong to Jesus. Paul says in Romans that those who belong to Jesus are set free from the law of sin and death. Rom 8:2-11

      The ransom Jesus paid for us, is often misunderstood as a substitution, ie. Jesus died instead of us. This makes no sense for several reasons – firstly, we still die and secondly, why did Jesus get his life back again if it was paid for a substitutionary ransom? More importantly, this idea of Jesus dying as a substitute for us, takes away from the deep significance of what our Lord has done for us. Jesus was not our substitute, he was our leader/head, showing us how we have to follow Him in our lives.

      The ransom Jesus paid, was the loving sacrifice of his life made to redeem from sin and death, those who would follow him. This sacrifice was not easily made from Jesus’ point of view. He knew that God wanted him to die on the cross. Matt 20:19


      2. Where did you get it from that “According to Christadelphian theology, Jesus had to die in order to save himself.” As you yourself came to see we also maintain that Jesus was without blemish or defect (in one sense)?


      3. Thomas by saying to Jesus, “My Lord and my god,” (John 20:28) was not saying Jesus was the God of gods nor did he use God’s name in vain, because he did not use God His Name at all. He used a tittle for any higher person, like many still today use the word god for their idols or for an important figure. In the Bible are Angels, Apollo, Zeus, Moses, Pharaoh called god, but do you think the Bible says they are the god of gods, the Elohim Hashem Jehovah? According to the Bible, the infallible Word of God, there is only One God. A god is something different than the God.
      When you look at John 20:24 that the second “my” indicates two persons: (A): My Lord and God = one person + (B) : My Lord (1 person) and my God (1 person) = two persons. Normally in Greek if only one person is implied there will only be one “my”. Compare Philippians 2:25 and Exodus 21:5 [The same for the use of ‘your’]
      As evidence for the possibility that Thomas has in mind 2 persons idea, we could consider parallels such as Zechariah 12:10:

      Zech 12:10: And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over him, like the bitter weeping over a first-born.

      Thomas is looking on him who was pierced (Christ) but acknowledging that it was both Jesus (physically) and God (emotionally as Zechariah) who were pierced. The context in John 20:24 shares with Zechariah 12:10 that it follows immediately from the reception of the Holy Spirit. While Zech. ch 12-14 (and in particular Zech.12:10-13:1) clearly have a future fulfillment, there are some double fulfillments in the aftermath of the resurrection and in early Acts (e.g. Acts 2:37-39 ) as well as the outpouring of the Spirit. The Lord Jesus himself quotes Zech.13:7 on the night of his crucifixion. These parallels to Zechariah would leave us to conclude

      My Lord (= Lord) and my God (= God)

      An other way of looking at it would be if Thomas (who believes in God & who believes in the Old Testament) says “My Lord and my God”, the God of Thomas – as a Jew – is still God. It is by those who take God to be also some else, like Pharaoh, Jesus or Moses, they could take the other person to be meant like you think Thomas meant Jesus when he said ‘God’.
      Either of the above readings is possible. But ultimately whether “My Lord and my God” = one person, or two, may not matter so much due to the context about Thomas which has been built up earlier in the Gospel of John.


      4. Jude 4 about denying “our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.”
      In the time of Jesus like in our time there are many lords. Why should we not be allowed to call Jesus our only Master and Lord? Lord is not always a substitute for the Most High God.

      God the Father is the Lord over the lord of lords, Jesus Christ. Jesus very well knew that he could say a lot of things, do a lot of things other man could not do, but he knew also very well that he could not do anything with his Father Who is greater than him. (John 14:28) Also the apostles knew they could be lord of the house, or lord of the ecclesia, but that Jesus was their master and lord, though Jesus was himself under the Most High Almighty Lord, Jehovah, the God of gods.

      We advice you to look at and read the following articles:
      Being Religious and Spiritual 4 Philosophical, religious and spiritual people
      People Seeking for God 6 Strategy
      People Seeking for God 7 The Lord and lords
      Lord and owner

      We also have a lord over the world according to the Bible. Compare also Al-Fatiha [The Opening/De Opening] Süra 1:1-3 In the name of Allah the Merciful Lord Of The Creation and Al-Fatiha [The Opening] Süra 1: 4-7 Merciful Lord of the Creation to show us the right path + Find also Trusting, Faith, calling and Ascribing to Jehovah #3 Voice of God #6 Words to feed and communicate + The Song of The Lamb #5 Revelation 5

      We should carefully investigate texts where is is spoken about the Lord of lords. Often we can see that when we look at the original writing there is no such thing written but stands the name of the person meant. It was in centuries after the apostles that by reproducing the Bible texts Lord was written in place or the real names of the two different characters, on one side Jehovah God and on the other hand Jesus Christ the rabbi and prophet.

      You see we can use also other tittles to point to Jeshua, the Nazarene who is consider to be the Christos, the Christ or Messiah (all titles which we can use for him)

      When we do take Jesus as our Master we do not have any reason at all to say to Jesus, “My Lord and my God.” because in this time and age we can not stand in front of Jesus and you like many others take the phrase out of context. But we can talk about our Jesus and our God and as such say “my Jesus” and “my God”, but not this last saying as meaning it to be Jesus. That God should be the God, Jehovah.

      Where do you get it from we would call Jesus our Lord and our God? as you rightly point out we do believe Jesus is a creature and calling him or taking him to be the God of gods would be idolatry.


      5. John 1:12 says, “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,”
      A. Question: Have you received Jesus?

      We do believe Jesus is the only begotten son of God, like it is written in the bible. Nowhere in the Bible stands that Jesus is God or that there is a Holy Trinity.

      We believe also that Jesus was the promised Messiah, who gave his body for the sins of many and really died (remember that God can not die).

      We received Christ Jesus in the sense that we welcomed him, allowed him to enter in our heart and allowed him to mould us to children of God, to be also gathered together as sons and daughters of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

      We do not know what you mean with “receiving Christ”, but we received his salvation, and we received his teachings to which we want to be thruthfull.

      We do know that we also received the Holy Spirit, but that is not Christ, that is the Power of God.


      (Time is at hand so we have to close)
      6 & 7 we are going to treat together because you ask us if we have come to Jesus, but in a certain way we do not have only to come to Jesus and we can go straight ahead to God.

      Jesus paved the way and restored the relationship between God and man; He is also the mediator between god and man. (Again a proof he is not God, because that he would not be able to mediate between God and man).

      There is no need to pray to Jesus. He himself learned us to pray to his heavenly Father the Only One God, his God and the God of Abraham. But yes in case we are weary and heavy-laden we can go to him and he shall give us rest.

      Why should we not be able to got to Jesus as well as to his Father? Do you really think we can not please God when we respect His son and when we also would ask him things?

      As we said we do prefer that people would pray, not to Jesus, but to Jehovah God. So we can not answer how we or others would go in prayer to Jesus, because we do not?

      Concerning the forgiving you do take a wrong standpoint which also not confers with the law ruling and court ruling in real life. When we sin, we sin against God because it is His law we are breaking. According to you it is Him Who only can forgive us, but than you seem to forget the position God has given to the priests in the psst, the judges and most important to the preferred son whom God has taken at his side. As you say in the end it is God Who must forgive us, but not always because we have offended Him, and the act of forgiving must not have to be presented by Him. Jesus, according the Bible shall be returning to the earth to judge the living and the dead.

      The passage you are quoting does not say at all that Jesus is the one who forgives sins

      “And seeing their faith, he said, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.” (Luke 5:20 ASV)

      Jesus tells them that the sins are forgiven. He does not say by him and clearly knows it was by his Father, what he at other occasions also let to understand the onlookers.

      Yes we state that Jesus can say such things and that he shall be able to judge at the end-times, it is because Jesus was given authority by God to forgive sins (Matt. 28:19).
      Then you ask “have you gone to Jesus and asked Him to forgive you of your sins?” But why should we go to him to ask that when we can ask it straight ahead to his and our Father, about Whom Jesus learned us to ask “and forgive us our daily sins, like we forgive others”.

      You conclude your questions with ” Remember, to do that, you must pray to Jesus.” But we can not agree with that because we should pray not to Christ Jesus but to Jehovah God, according ot the Biblical teaching.


  6. Pingback: Background to look at things – Messiah For All

  7. Pingback: Lovers of God, seekers and lovers of truth | Stepping Toes

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  10. Roy Davison zegt:

    Beste mensen, Hoewel ik er niets tegen heb dat u iets uit mijn artikelen leert, heb ik liever dat u de vermelding op https://sites.google.com/site/belgianchristadelphians/neerslachtigheid verwijdert, want het zou de indruk kunnen geven dat ik Christadelphian ben.


    • Marcus Ampe zegt:

      Waar vermelden wij naar u of een van uw artikelen en plaatsen er in een tekst van u een link naar een artikel over neerslachtigheid?

      Indien deze link zou voorkomen in een zegging van u willen we die link gerust uit de quote of aanhaling halen. Maar indien het in een bespreking van ons is zien wij geen reden om die link weg te halen natuurlijk, mits wij, en moest er verwezen worden naar de Christadelphian Old Paths dan zijn deze zoals enkele van onze leden tot de Old Path Christadelphians behoren, ook Broeders in Christus.

      Op de About pagina zien wij trouwens nergens die link staan.


    • Waarom of hoe zou een link in een artikel, of zelfs in een uitspraak van u, de indruk geven dat u een Christadelphian bent? Deze site is een Christadelphian site en dan zou men kunnen verwachten dat lezers ook naast linken naar andere denkers hun artikelen, ook naar Christadelphian verduidelijkingsartikelen worden gestuurd.


  11. ROBERT HEATH zegt:

    Please send gospel 2335 crooks st ashland ky 41101


  12. Pingback: Those willing to tarnish – Unmasking anti Jehovah sites and people

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